Pianist Alon Kariv in conversation with Colin Clarke
Israeli pianist Alon Kariv will play Chopin’s First Piano Concerto on Sunday, May 11 at London’s Cadogan Hall with the English Chamber Orchestra (information here). Ahead of that performance I met Alon to discuss all things piano, some previous notable performances and, of course, his relationship with Chopin and that composer’s works.
Colin Clarke: Alon, it would be great to get a sort of summary, a sort of overview of your piano playing history to date. What age did you start? What age did you start winning competitions?
Alon Kariv: I began playing piano when I was five years old and was attracted to music in every possible way; even before that, I don’t remember, but that’s what I was told. When I was seven, I was taken to a more serious teacher, so my parents took me to a piano professor and asked, ‘What do we do with this kid?’ So I started seriously at age seven, and the first competition I was in, I was 10, and the first time I won anything, it was third prize. I won a competition in New York City in 2015 and before that I won a few Israeli piano competitions.
I went to an art high school, at an extremely high level, in Israel. I also now teach there, which is great. And after that, I studied for two years at Juilliard in New York with Veda [Yoheved) Kaplinsky and Julian Martin. Before that, I studied here in Israel with Professor Tomer Lev, and after two years, I came back to Israel, and now I’m continuing my Master’s degree with Tomer and Arie Vardi as well.”
You’ve worked with Zubin Mehta? What did you work on and what did you learn from him?
Yes it was a while ago, in Summer 2015 I played Chopin’s First Piano Concerto, he’s the best soloist accompanist. I remember there was the end of the third movement of the concerto, and I was nervous because it’s a tricky part, in terms of togetherness. I was fixated on looking at him and missed quite a few notes (in the rehearsal). And he stopped the entire rehearsal, and he looked at me and said, ‘You do your thing, I’ll do mine’. And I just remember feeling so safe, and free. There’s a lot of rubato in Chopin, so you need to be very considerate, and I had the freedom to be spontaneous.
In terms of piano playing, what traits would you say are important to good piano playing?
It’s a pretty complicated question. First of all, there is this stage presence that is needed. I’m not sure if it’s a skill or can be taught. You do need a good enough technique obviously, also you need to know how to read a musical text; to understand the composer’s intentions and be sensitive to where you can put in your own approach and so stand behind your performance and believe in what you do. Another very important thing is to maintain your cool on the stage. To see things in a light way: by which I mean when you play a wrong note, or something happens with the orchestra, or you enter late or early, if you don’t lose composure, it’s not that significant. But if you start beating yourself up, then you are not in the moment anymore.
Which pianists do you admire the most (both living and dead!)
In recent years I have listened a lot to Horowitz recordings. His virtuosity was such that no-one had seen before, but it’s his control of tone, colour and time which I find exceptional. In a Scriabin he goes from 400,000 fortissimos to pianissimo in under a second without any preparation. That I find amazing; and everyone I talk to tells me a recording is nothing close to seeing him on the stage. From the ones no longer with us there’s Horowitz and definitely Rubinstein, which I can’t really explain why. He’s the King of Chopin. Everything is so natural, and from those we can still hear I’m definitely a huge fan of Martha Argerich. The thing I appreciate most about her is that if you try to imitate her, it will sound absolutely terrible. I can recognise one of her performances from miles away; and it’s also her stage presence and who she is as a person. I have never talked to her, but I would pay a lot of money to have a coffee with her!
I’ve been sent footage of your recital at Basel’s Stadtcasino [here] and clarity seems to be a core aspect of your playing, something we certainly hear in the wonderful C minor Toccata (BWV 911) in your recital. What are your thoughts on playing Bach on the piano? And also, the importance of clarity in piano playing generally?
I think Bach is probably one of the most difficult composers for me to play, but also the one that I probably feel the most at home with. And I think that in Bach’s music every genre is different in approach. I definitely think the Well-Tempered Clavier is the most specific with clear dos and don’ts on how to play a fugue. Once you play a theme, its destiny is doom, as András Schiff said in a masterclass. But I think that the Toccatas are probably the most ‘concert’ pieces. If I could, I would start every concert with Bach. You can’t go wrong; it’s always a great beginning. In terms of pedal and dynamics, Bach didn’t have access to them (in an organ the only thing you can alter is time, the harpsichord as well). I do feel that with respect to the style as a pianist, if he had a choice to tell pianists what to do today, I think he would allow a little bit of pedal.
It’s very important to have clarity in playing, in a broader sense, more so than articulation. I mean having articulation is extremely important but also being articulate with what you want to convey. And if you’re ambiguous, then it’s because you decided to be ambiguous. But I think you need to have clarity in all fields in order for it to come across in your playing.
And it’s one of the first things that struck me, and it’s so laudable, because so many pianists overpedal, for one thing, but also, you’ve got a great repertoire breath; from the Bach we get to Scriabin’s Ninth Sonata. You mentioned that already in reference to Horowitz, but of course, your performance I thought was tremendous. One of the things that really impressed me was the way that you understood how trills have got a sort of energetic importance to them. They’re not just decorative, but they bring about an energy in themselves. In terms of repertoire going forwards from that, in terms of post-Scriabin, maybe Modernist music, how far do you go?
So actually, I haven’t performed much contemporary music. I have played a few Israeli pieces and from composers like Sergiu Natra, who died recently, a really good composer. And also, I played pieces for two pianos and four hands by Kurtág, which is really not notes, it’s not sheet music, its shapes, and you’re supposed to figure out what to do. So that was from Játékok (Games). Amazing pieces. The concept of wrong notes is not really relevant. It’s quite freeing.
The idea of creating a new notation itself makes one ask questions about the notation which exists already and what that can tell you, which I think is really interesting in Kurtág’s case.
Another aspect of the Scriabin is we can look at it going one way, which is towards modern music. But of course, Scriabin’s music itself came from Chopin, a lineage if you like. And I wonder if that was what drew it to you in the first place?
Funnily enough that wasn’t actually the case. I remember always thinking that Scriabin is not for me, like I couldn’t relate to it. When I was 18, a very good friend of mine, who’s a pianist himself and a Scriabin freak, made me listen to the composer’s late stuff, his early things and the symphonies and I somehow got enchanted by the writing and I’ve loved Scriabin ever since. But I didn’t get it at the beginning. It’s hard.
He’s got a very individual soundworld as well, and as you go towards those late sonatas, it really is quite incredible. And I really like the way you shaped the piece, as well. So, it feels like a lot of work went into that?
I remember working with my teacher and we really dissected it together, and now everything makes sense and hopefully to the listener as well.
And this is related to the way you play the Liszt B minor Sonata. You play it in a way that is quite interesting, because after hearing the Scriabin, bits of the Liszt sounded quite modern. But also, quite an interesting thing about the Liszt is that you can see it as a virtuoso piece, or you can see it as Pollini did, like a piece which moves towards late Liszt. With you, it struck me that you play it with true integrity. And the other word that came to my mind when I listened to you was dignity. But how do you see the piece?
I actually see the piece in both ways: it’s obviously extremely virtuosic and demanding, but I don’t think it’s as virtuosic as, you know, the Réminiscences de Don Juan. You know, Liszt was not only a composer, but he was also the first rock star in history. So, you definitely see the parts of the sonata that I think are very impressive, but I also agree with Pollini, because I think it’s the closest piano piece to a Wagner opera, and also the most philosophical piece until that point in history. It’s also from the time in his life after he got tired with performing and began to settle and teach and become more religious. so I would have to agree.
Listening to the first movement of your Beethoven Third Concerto [YouTube performance here] and Mozart’s 24th Piano Concerto [here] with that fantastic cadenza, as well as Rachmaninov Corelli Variations, is it a conscious thing to give every note space to breathe within relation to every other one and in the context of a greater structure?
I do think it is conscious at least most of the time, because I hear music in general, as always engaging, always gaining tension and I really feel it in my body, like it intensifies. So, I really need to look for places where I can release, to let the music have an option to recharge. So, yes, I do think it’s conscious.
I just want to make a quick point about the Mozart Piano Concerto 24 cadenza you play, the Rona Kreiner, is it more a symphonic poem than cadenza?
She’s a student of my teacher, I was offered that concerto last year and I had less than two weeks to study it, because it was really a last-minute thing, and I’m like, ‘Well, I don’t have time to write a cadenza, so I’ll see what’s out there’. And someone told me, you need to listen to her cadenza. So I asked her permission, and I just really love it. It’s really cool. It’s really, I think, intelligently written.
You implied that if you weren’t able to find a cadenza, you might write one yourself. Do you write your own cadenzas for Mozart concertos? Do you compose?
I’ve actually never written any cadenza yet but it’s definitely something that I want to do, even if I don’t end up performing it. Just let it simmer for a while. I think it’s good experience and good exercise.
You’re obviously a collaborative pianist with conductors, and for chamber music with the Israeli MultiPiano ensemble as well. What can you tell me about that aspect of your activities? And please if you want, do mention that wonderful Hyperion disc of Mozart Multipiano Concertos.
MultiPiano is an ensemble my teacher founded several years ago and I was an official part of it for a couple of years. Not right now, but if they need me, I’ll drop everything and I’m there. Indeed, there’s the Hyperion CD but also, for example, four years ago we played a two-piano version, eight hands Mendelssohn Octet. Also, there was a MultiPiano performance of the entire Holst Planets for piano and percussion ensemble (I wasn’t in that). So really it was extremely fun, but it’s the most difficult chamber combination you can imagine. It is all the same instrument; it needs to be exactly together. Everything needs to be on point. The Mozart recording with the ECO is the first project I’ve ever played with MultiPiano and my first recording overall; even though I only played a small part on the CD I was present for the entire recording session, so I definitely learned a lot. It was also without a conductor.
So you’ll play the Chopin First in London with the ECO on Sunday, May 11 – what is your relationship with Chopin the composer, and with this piece in general?
I have a history with this piece. It’s maybe cheesy, but Chopin is probably my favorite composer ever. It’s like good cake; I can’t resist it. I find Chopin to be very similar to Mozart in many ways. Firstly, operatic, though it’s a different kind of opera as Chopin is very bel canto, Bellini I’d say. But there are also specific gestures which other composers have used but with Mozart and Chopin it’s more of a thumbprint. I really feel that Chopin is very specific, and you need to love Chopin in order to play it well. And regarding the First Concerto, I feel like I know it now less well than when I played it the first time! Every time I go back to it, I discover more things that could be done and that I would change. And it’s not like that with every piece that I come back to. It’s a very tricky concerto because someone told me it’s not a piano concerto, it is a concerto for a pianist.
What makes it extremely difficult? That brings in the issue of Chopin’s orchestration – like Robert Schumann, it is sometimes questioned or altered. But to me it has a very individual sound. What are your thoughts on this, and do you find it problematical?
In the first and second movements there is not that much significant direct dialogue between piano and orchestra, so it’s really a monologue for lengthy periods of time. It’s very piano focused, I think. People don’t usually appreciate Chopin’s orchestration and I’m in no place to say I don’t appreciate it. I actually think there are a few moments that are really exceptional, especially in the development of the first movement. You hear sometimes in recordings that they up the volume of the clarinets and you have this counterpoint there, but it’s really very pianistic.
The bassoon often gets drowned out in that first movement too. I love what you say that you go back to a score and it reveals more and more. I’m wondering if that’s almost a definition of a great piece of music?
Yes, I think that’s part of why classical music is considered classic. It stands the test of time for so many years. Definitely I think that’s part of what makes a masterpiece.
Looking at the Chopin First Concerto, what are the challenges of each movement?
I think that the first movement has a really difficult beginning because everyone becomes quiet, you’re focusing and everyone realises your entrance is coming. That’s what my father tells me when he hears me play it live, he stops breathing from stress!
I wonder how he’d cope with Brahms First Piano Concerto?
Yes, but at least with the Brahms I ease into it, Chopin First is more similar here to the Grieg Piano Concerto opening. Another difficulty in the first movement is the sequences. There are many patterns that we see many, many times. The development is the entire thing, it’s basically the same music in different keys but somehow you need – with every tool that you have, such as dynamics, articulation, colour – to make it sound varied all the time, and developing all the time, Also there is a lot of emotional endurance – it’s very emotionally intense, and I think that you need to be courageous, and play it like it’s the last thing you’re ever going to play. The second movement, for me, is very difficult to not let fall apart. I always had a tendency to slow down, I still do, and you need to practice the rubato in tempo, which is probably the ideal rubato, because there are so many places where you can take time. Then there is the leggierissimo here and elsewhere the syncopation, and you need to decide where you take time and where you give it back. You can’t just take time and that’s the main challenge in the second movement.
As for the third movement, it’s difficult in many ways. Technically, it’s absolutely terrible … and also even now I still notice every time the theme comes back, I realise things I haven’t done right before. There are slightly different rhythms. Also, it’s a dance movement and you need to have the Polish vibe. That’s why I think the Mazurkas are also the most difficult of Chopin’s pieces. Here it’s not a mazurka, but you need to have this sense of lift.
With reference to pedaling in this concerto, how do you balance this aspect of your playing to have a sustaining ability, but also – that word again! – clarity?
So first of all, I play from the Paderewski edition and many times if I question things I just lift my eyes from the keyboard and see what’s written, then it solves a lot of my problems, but I think it’s a matter of not using the pedal as concealer. Also, it’s very different in every hall you play, the orchestra you play with too, how quiet they can go in terms of volume, but especially in the hall you need to be very attentive, and to listen on the spot: not to bring your pedal from home and recycle!
And staccato also? Mezzo-staccato and more gradations – you have more than most pianists.
Yes, it’s a conscious decision. It’s something which can naturally bring life to the music.
And what about the harmonic relationships, especially the large-scale ones? This comes naturally to you?
I think that when you understand the harmonic structure, even just playing in harmonic reduction, you can understand how long the phrases are, and why you can’t stop every moment. It’s very tempting to do that, because everything is so beautiful.
Do you know the Cadogan Hall’s piano, and what are your preferred pianos?
I played in the Cadogan in a Multipiano concert maybe three years ago, I’m not sure which one. It was a Steinway. There were three on the stage, they were all Steinways, all great.
Are you a Steinway devotee?
Not necessarily, in most concerts I played here were Steinways, so it’s the most common concert piano, but I have played on an incredible Yamaha concert grand, which I even loved more than any Steinway I’ve played on. As for Bösendorfer, I never played on a concert one, and I think Fazioli can be great but I haven’t had the chance, though I feel it might be similar to Italian cars in relation to German cars. Steinway is steady, it has years of tradition, it has projection, it’s comfortable to play. The Fazioli I played on was very difficult to control. You just press on the pedal, immediately you have noise, or when you put a little bit more pressure you’re immediately in forte. That’s what I mean, it’s more of a sports car, a sports piano!
Finally, to the future?
There’s an upcoming Chopin disc and I’m going to finish my Master’s degree and it will be a huge relief! In terms of performances, I’m going to have a recital in Merkin Hall in New York in September, and in June I’m going to play in Israel with the Jerusalem Symphony, Prokofiev’s Second Concerto. I’m going to have a recital at Warsaw University in September as well, plus a few more concerts with the Jerusalem Symphony next year. Things are building up!
Indeed, the future looks exciting and, of course, Sunday’s concert at Cadogan Hall is certainly one not to miss.
Colin Clarke