Northern Ireland Opera brings Sondheim’s Follies to Belfast this month: a preview

Robert Beattie previews NIO’s new production of Sondheim’s Follies

Northern Ireland have been building an enviable reputation over the last few years in terms of the quality and variety of their productions and the exceptionally high standard of the performances. They have produced a string of conventional operatic productions including La bohème (review here), La traviata (review here), Tosca and Eugene Onegin (review here) which have all received glowing reviews from the Press. In addition, they have also produced several successful Broadway musicals including Sweeney Todd, Kiss me, Kate (review here) and Into the Woods (review here). More recently, they have moved into the field of chamber opera and produced a smaller scale production of The Juniper Tree by Philip Glass and Robert Moran (review here).

Northern Ireland Opera have produced a fascinating and again highly successful ‘Salon Series’ featuring opera, art song, cabaret and music theatre; I admired the inaugural production of Poulenc’s La voix humaine (review here). These performances have taken place across different venues across Northern Ireland including the opulent rooms of Hillsborough Castle and the gloomy foyer of Crumlin Road Prison. Every year they run the ‘Glenarm Festival of Voice’ in the historic coastal village of Glenarm. Now in its fifteenth year, this event brings together BBC Radio 3 recitals, outreach events, performances by emerging artists and culminates in the Competition Finale (review here). Later this month they will be running free events at the Belfast Maritime Festival and in November a ‘Morning Melodies’ event will take place at the Grand Opera House studio.

I spoke to the Artistic Director of Northern Ireland Opera, Cameron Menzies, the Musical Director, Greg Arrowsmith, and to West End Performer, Anna-Jane Casey, about the forthcoming production of Stephen Sondheim’s Follies.

Robert Beattie: Sondheim’s Follies is musical theatre rather than an opera. Is it right for opera houses to stage musical theatre productions?

Cameron Menzies: Northern Ireland Opera was set up to perform music theatre, opera and operetta and to bring storytelling through music to Northern Ireland and that’s exactly what this is doing. For me, there is no difference between staging, something like Eugene Onegin, as opposed to Follies. They are epic. There is a musical through-line throughout the piece, and it’s storytelling through music. And for me, that’s all that counts.

I probably wouldn’t do a jukebox musical, but I do think it’s important for opera companies to perform repertoire like Sondheim. A lot of commercial companies will not do a production like this because it’s too big. A commercial company would have to schedule it on many more dates, as that is what the license holders would expect. There are a lot of reasons why an opera company should do musical theatre productions like Sondheim. There’s also a bigger debate which I don’t have an answer for, around whether a work like Follies is opera or musical theatre. What did Sondheim write? I think some people think it’s very much in the opera category, while others see it as music theatre. It’s operatic in nature in that it contains songs inside the piece. In the same way Musetta’s waltz in La bohème is a song inside the opera. Some of the pieces in Follies are emotional blueprints with music and text that drives the story forward. So, for me, it is an opera in that sense. To deny that it is operatic would be like saying Musetta’s waltz doesn’t belong in La bohème because it’s a song in a cafe which involves a woman is singing to the people. It’s absolutely right for Northern Ireland Opera to be doing this. Also, if we were not to do it, it would never not have been staged on the island of Ireland yes, as this is its premier production!

RB: Why have you chosen to stage this particular work and how are the themes in Follies relevant to Northern Ireland and wider issues in today’s world?

CM: We’ve been sitting on this idea for a while and waiting for when the time feels right to do Follies. We did Into the Woods in 2022, and, like Follies, it is very much a part of what’s happening in the world now where things are changing at a rapid rate. Follies is set in the 1940s and in the 1970s, two time periods where things changed dramatically. In 1941 the Second World War was still on and in 1945 there were momentous changes in the world. In the 1970s the world had changed again and in New York, the municipal authorities were pulling down all these amazing, beautiful buildings and theatres.

There are huge changes happening with the world now. There are questions about what is important, what do we hang on to, what should we move on from to allow us to settle down and move on in our lives. We are in a period where people are in a free fall of questioning everything about what we believe in and what side of something we’re on, which is what every single character does coming into this piece. Follies is about the theatre. It is going to be pulled down and the characters question whether the aspirations and expectations of their youth should have led them to where they are in their lives now. The story focuses on two couples, and they question everything during the piece. They all question what they’ve been doing for the last 30 years, and is it right? Is it wrong? Has it been successful? Has it not? And I do think the world is asking that of itself now in terms of what has worked, what has not worked.

Things are sometimes not as black and white as they appear to be on social media. You either believe one thing or another but there is nuance, there are shades of grey. This piece deals with these issues beautifully. That’s why in 2025 in Belfast, where a lot of social issues that may not be about a theatre, but those issues are in society about what’s right and wrong and where do you sit in that kind of story. I think, thematically, it’s a beautiful piece to bring to 2025.

RB: It is, as you say, a very nuanced work.  It seems to contrast the youthful optimism of the four the main characters with the disillusionment they experience later in their lives as things haven’t gone the way they wanted them to go. There’s an intense focus on different relationships which is which is very interesting.

CM: And what people have been willing to live with or sacrifice in order to get what they want.

RB: The work is set in 1971 but it looks back to the period between the two world wars. Will your production retain that setting and time period. What else can you tell us about the production?

CM: Yes. Look, it absolutely adheres to 1941 and 1971. The ‘Follies’ costumes have been designed to match the time period when the action takes place. So, someone like Lesley Garrett’s character, Heidi, her peak in the ‘Follies’ cabaret show was 1918, so she is dressed like a 1918 ‘Follies’ girl. The ‘Follies’ girls in the 1920’s and 1930’s also have costumes which match those time periods. So, these ghost ‘Follies’ girls appear across different time periods until we get back to 1971.

Gillian Lennox and I are the costume designers on the show. We’ve painstakingly gone through auctions and lots of vintage websites and found mostly vintage gowns from the 1970s. We have done this because you can’t get those fabrics anymore and the cuts are specific to those time periods. So, it will look very much 1971 when those women all hit the stage and come to this evening in the Weissman’s ‘Follies’.

We have also had to look at the characters might look across different time periods. So, Dimitri Weismann will look and behave differently in the 1940’s and the 1970’s. But we will absolutely be in 1971 when those women all hit that stage.

RB: This one is probably for Greg as well. The work contains many famous numbers, including ‘Losing my Mind’, ‘I’m Still Here’, ‘Broadway Baby’ and ‘Too Many Mornings’. What do you find attractive about Sondheim’s music and why have some of these songs become so iconic?  

CM: Ah, look, I’ll give you a quick answer and then I’ll pass you into Greg. For me, he has seamlessly built in songs that appear in the show as a song, and then emotional moments that are either internal or just a split second in time. The way he treats these pieces of music are very different. That’s what makes this work so theatrically exciting to stage and why it is so rewarding to work with actors to bring it to life.

You have numbers like, ‘Who’s That Woman’ which is initially performed by Pippa Winslow as Stella Deems. It then becomes a full show number in 1971 with all the ‘Follies’ performing it trying to remember their steps. And then there are beautiful moments like ‘Losing my Mind’. There’s a moment, almost a fleeting moment in her head, and it happens to go past. He gives you so many options to work with dramatically and to place these pieces of music.

RB: Greg, how would you characterise Sondheim’s music?

Greg Arrowsmith: There are a couple of elements that make Sondheim’s music so distinctive. One is you could either listen to the music or the lyrics and get the same message without hearing both at the same time, which is really extraordinary. Another is the massive variety of styles that he’s able to write in. His big band material is as convincing as his Classical orchestral style, like we have in the Prologue. Then there are traditional numbers. Sondheim composes in an incredible variety of styles which all have the same language. But it doesn’t feel like a compilation.

RB: There’s a lot of stuff which resembles material from the 1920s and 1930s in this musical. There are a lot of show numbers that one associates with old musicals but then there are other more intense personal numbers as well.

GA: That’s right. If you think about who was playing in Broadway in that time, people like Glenn Miller were in the theatre bands for the early Gershwin shows such as Girl Crazy. Follies includes numerous references and nods to the composers of that time, and the writing is very idiomatic of that time. At the same time, Sondheim includes songs like ‘Losing my Mind’ which you could set today, and it would still be equally valid.

RB: The original orchestration was by Jonathan Tunick. Are you keeping that orchestration, or are you adding your own material?

GA: We are sticking with Jonathan Tunick’s orchestration. His connection with Sondheim was so strong, and he knew so much about the music that there would be very little you could do to change it.

RB: Anna-Jane, can I ask you about your character? In this musical you’ve got middle-aged and younger versions of the four main characters. What are the main challenges associated with this?

Anna-Jane Casey: I play Sally Durant aged 49 in this musical. It must have been hard for Cameron and his team to cast it because you’ve got to get people who are not necessarily physically identical, but who have similar characteristics and attributes to create the feeling they have the same soul. I’m very animated and have a sunny disposition. Brigid Shine plays the younger version of Sally, and she is the is the most gorgeous young human. I’m probably old enough to be her mother in real life! But we have very similar characteristics, and she is a similar soul.

It’s fine if people look similar physically but you’re not going to get identical twins. In fact, my favourite pairing in the show is the lovely Annette McLaughlin, whom I’ve known for a long time, who’s playing Phyllis and her younger self who is a young lady called Anna Violet. They literally could have passed as mother and daughter; it’s beautifully done. Anna has the same elegant style that Annette has. In the same way, Brigid and I are very vivacious and flibbertigibbety.  Annette and Anna are regal and very beautiful. People always say that your eyes never change from when you’re a baby to when you get older. In the same way, a person’s soul is still the same whatever life happens to throw at them whether that be divorce, a death in the family or whatever. I think that’s the beauty of what Cameron and Greg and the team have done to put these characters together.

RB: What were the main challenges of playing Sally both vocally and dramatically.

A-JC: Well, I’m famously one of those ladies who does all the big shouty, belty numbers like ‘Don’t Rain on my Parade’ and ‘All that Jazz’. That’s kind of what I’m known for. Cameron was very kind to trust me, to have that kind of floaty, more mezzo sound. As I’m getting older, I’m discovering that my voice is floating higher. Some ladies say their voice had dropped but mine seems to be pinging higher. Maybe next year I’ll be playing the Queen of the Night! It’s been a challenge for me to find where to place those songs in my voice as they are lighter than the stuff I usually perform.

Sondheim has written it so that when there are real tender moments for Sally; that’s when her voice rises. When it’s a strong simple sentence such as [sings] ‘I’m walking over here and I’m picking up my tea’ it’s very direct. But the minute Sally mentions love, the sound goes up and it is beautifully written up there. So that’s my challenge to find that in my voice.

RB: Okay, what about dramatically?

A-JC: Dramatically, well, now, I can completely identify with Miss Sally Durant Plummer. She and I are around the same age. She’s a lady who’s been married a long time and she has two children which is the same for me. So, all those things that you might as an actor have to try and find, I’ve lived a lot of that. Sally still wants to be a star, she still wants to work in the theatre and she still wants to be loved. Any actor would be lying if they tell you they don’t want these things. These are the reasons why we do it. We stand on a stage so people will like us. So, I can find that part of the character.

One main challenge for me is not wanting Sally to become a pain in the bum, just a woman who’s like, ‘Oh, love me because I’m so nice’. That’s what we’ve been looking at today in some of the scenes. It’s important the audience don’t go ‘Oh God, that woman’s just coming on and whining about her past’. There’s more to it than that, and hopefully the audience will see that. That’s my job and Cameron’s job.

RB: A lot of the musical surrounds these four characters and contrasts their youthful optimism with the feelings of disillusionment they experience as they get older. It can, as you say, come across in a very negative way, and one of the challenges is to try and make the characters much more likeable and spicier than that.

A-JC: The other way I make them really unlikeable, so at least the audience feels something. There are nearly a thousand people who will see our show every night. We need to give to them something they can grab on to. So, an audience member who’s been married a long time will say, ‘Oh, I know that feeling when you get so comfortable in a relationship with somebody that you can be horrible to them’. Yet the audience won’t hate them as they think ‘I know why they’re doing that because that’s how I feel when my wife, husband or partner hasn’t done something’. I feel the audience will appreciate being put in touch with this point of view because there’s a lot of recognition of real life in it. A lot of musicals are weird and they’re kind of fake. We’re not all witches painted green as in Wicked; we’re not all transvestites as in Rocky Horror. However, in Follies they are real people with real relationships.

RB: A lot of the music in Follies relates to the interwar period between the First and Second World Wars. Was it fun to perform some those numbers.

A-JC: Yes, there’s a beautiful song called ‘Who is that Woman’ which is a great tap number. You’ve got women aged from 21 up to 64, all tap dancing, and there’s fourteen of us giving it full welly. It’s a big sound like an Andrews Sisters song. But Sondheim is very clever in that his orchestrations, and the way his songs are put together, really serve the characters and what he wants to show. He does not just put songs in because they sound nice.

RB: What was it like working with other members of the cast. Lesley Garrett has joined the cast this year performing in the role of Heidi. How did you find working with Lesley?

A-JC: I have a connection to Lesley. My husband did a production of Carousel with her probably about twenty years ago now, in fact, before I had children. Given he knows Lesley, I also know her through six degrees of separation. Lesley is also a Northerner like me so on the first day I did curtain call with her, I said, ‘you are Dame Lesley Garrett’ and she said, ‘Oh, shut up’, because she’s got that real Northern charm. But she’s amazing. Lesley is one of the UK’s top sopranos and she has come to do this production. Petra Wells plays the younger version of Lesley’s character, Heidi. When Lesley and Petra sang their duet for us on the first or second rehearsal, everybody was in tears because it’s just beautiful. Petra’s got a stunning soprano voice and Lesley still sounds absolutely gorgeous. So, there was real admiration from everybody in the room. We’re all fans of each other’s work, which hopefully will come across to our audience.

RB: This question is probably for Cameron. Can you tell us what other initiatives Northern Ireland Opera has planned for the future?

CM: We’ve planning to do a lot of stuff. Obviously, as you know, we’re funded yearly which is always very, very tricky for us. We’ll go back to perform an opera next year and hopefully keep things upbeat and exciting. We have two international tours next year where we will be performing works which we initially premiered here in Belfast which is very exciting for the company. We will also keep on with our regular activities. We have our Chorus Development Programme which involves working with new chorus members to get them up to speed on productions. We have lots of free concerts and pop-up events over the next month or so. So, we still have a packed twelve-month programme full of different events, although obviously Follies is our biggest piece.

RB: Cameron, Greg, Anna-Jane many thanks for talking to us about this production and the work of Northern Ireland Opera. I’m really looking forward to seeing it. All the best with this production!

Northern Ireland Opera will perform Follies at the Grand Opera House, Belfast between 13 and 20 September 2025. Click here for more information.

Robert Beattie